kaelidancer
|
Act II ArgumentThis piece has been the topic of a recent sidebar conversation somewhere on here, but I'm pretty sure it was off-topic to begin with, and I can't be bothered to go find it besides. 
How do you guys feel about the concept album Argument being reinstated in its proper place in Act II? It'd be pretty simple to use the Broadway score, cutting a couple of measures, to include it.
I'm a fan of it, myself, but I'm trying to decide if it's worth the effort. It would essentially eliminate Anatoly's "friends" from act two, which is just fine by me.. but it'd take some serious shoehorning to work it in.
Thoughts?
|
Jekkienumber24601
|
It fits fine in my act 2  but yeah..you have to cut a few measures and then add a measure. "A Gaaaaaaaaaame of chess" "trouble would beeeeeeeee ooooooooooh so small" the "oh" pretty much repeats the measure that contains "be"
|
jackrussell
|
Absolutely would love to see it reinstated - its absence was the only major flaw in the Royal Albert Hall version, IMO.
|
Cadriel
|
I like the idea - it's a better lead-in to "I Know Him So Well" than either the London "Deal" or the restaurant scene in Broadway, which I've found to be the most tedious in the script. Of course, it would make the scenes around the first "You and I" in both scripts totally redundant, which is why it's not brought back in any major variations. (The 1990 UK Tour did it, but they also cut "Quartet" and ended with "Nobody's Side" so...yeah.) All things considered, I'd rather have "Argument" and let the final "You and I" be the first time you hear the song, but that's not the direction subsequent variations have gone in.
|
alcockell
|
Cadriel, I think it would work better in that point int he narrative in a putative screenplay as well - have a look at my last post in the "major motion picture" thread..
Thoughts?
|
Jekkienumber24601
|
| Cadriel wrote: | | I like the idea - it's a better lead-in to "I Know Him So Well" than either the London "Deal" or the restaurant scene in Broadway, which I've found to be the most tedious in the script. Of course, it would make the scenes around the first "You and I" in both scripts totally redundant, which is why it's not brought back in any major variations. (The 1990 UK Tour did it, but they also cut "Quartet" and ended with "Nobody's Side" so...yeah.) All things considered, I'd rather have "Argument" and let the final "You and I" be the first time you hear the song, but that's not the direction subsequent variations have gone in. |
I actually don't like I know him so well coming right after it. "You can even call my wife!" You think Florence is going to listen to him?
|
Jekkienumber24601
|
My proposed order.
Interview
Argument
Scene with Anatoly meeting Svetlana in Hotel room from the broadway version.
Someone Else's Story (Svetlana lyrics)
The Deal.
|
alcockell
|
Interview then Argument - as in Florence rounding on Anatoly as soon as he'd got home? So - in context.. something like..
Anatoly leaves for interview/conference etc...
Florence sings Heaven, unsure as to where the last 2 years went...
Meanwhile - Interview airs... (probably intercutting with Florence's reaction as the Svetlana VT package rolls)..
Anatoly comes home - to be faced with...
"... I would hae thought.... " Florence in his face while he's knackered from the onslaught in the interview... "...WHY IS OURS ON TV???!!!!"...
Thoughts?
|
Thom_Boyer
|
It works, and it gives some context for Svetlana's SES being sung between "Interview" and "The Deal." Just out of curiosity, where would you be placing IKHSW? And what would you be cutting to accommodate this scene?
|
Monsieur D'Arque
|
The placement of Someone Else's Story in the Danish Complete record used the song as the "video interview" of Svetlana that Anatoly is shown during the Interview sequence.
|
Thom_Boyer
|
| Monsieur D'Arque wrote: | | The placement of Someone Else's Story in the Danish Complete record used the song as the "video interview" of Svetlana that Anatoly is shown during the Interview sequence. |
And yet, somehow, I always prefer to just skip it...
SES is a major problem in that no one missed it until it was written, and I think that Jekkie's concept better justifies its existence in the London structure (which I'm not a fan of, but I do like seeing what can be done to improve upon it) than those times where it's just sandwiched in. SES being Svetlana's video clip after the Interview does nothing other than destroy the pace for three minutes, to say nothing of the fact that the Danish (or RAH, for that matter) concert didn't even see fit to use the alternate lyrics that had been specifically written for her character in Sydney. Jekkie's plan gives Svetlana a stronger introduction in a dramatic context (I'm assuming the "You knew better than me..." piece will introduce her prior to the song) rather than using a television broadcast as a confessional (ouch...Broadway "Pity..." flashback with that one!).
|
kaelidancer
|
I've temporarily placed it in the Broadway script's II,4 ... that is, the scene that contains the first You & I. It's the scene where Florence learns that Svetlana is in Budapest, so it fit best there, in my mind. I simply removed Anatoly's friends from the scene, and rejiggered the dialogue a little, and left You & I as it is, thus:
| Quote: | (Just after "No Contest", on a television screen we see a reporter interviewing Svetlana. Florence switches it off, in disbelief.)
ANATOLY
Florence...
FLORENCE
Your wife...
ANATOLY
Yes, she's here, in Budapest.
FLORENCE
And you knew?
ANATOLY
I'm not naive. Molokov, no doubt.
FLORENCE
Yes, no doubt.
ANATOLY
This changes nothing.
FLORENCE (singing)
I would have thought in the average affair...
(etc etc)
ANATOLY
...You can even call my wife!
(after a long pause)
ANATOLY
...I'm sorry.
FLORENCE
Are you going to see her?
ANATOLY
If you don't want--
FLORENCE
What I want can have nothing to do with this.
ANATOLY
I don't love her.
FLORENCE
You married her.
ANATOLY
Years ago.
FLORENCE
And years ago you loved her.
(You & I begins)
(singing) This is an all too familiar scene... (etc.) |
Or something. It's still very tentative, and I may reverse the decision tomorrow. It's a work in progress
That's the best place I can find for it in the Broadway script, without doing major rewriting, which I'm trying to avoid. I'm not sure how married to it I am, but I love that it eliminates the useless characters of Anatoly's buddies, who exist only to inform them of Svetlana's presence, and I love that it replaces dialogue with music, a welcome change in Nelson's second act.
|
kaelidancer
|
Well, after sleeping on it I've decided I like it. I tweaked the dialogue surrounding it a little, but otherwise I'm leaving it as above for the time being.
Here's the song order for my revision:
| Quote: |
Act I
Prologue/Story of Chess (Broadway version, sung by Arbiter & Assistants)
Freddie's Entrance (both verses)
Press Conference (Broadway version)
Where I Want to Be
Argument I (How Many Women)
Merchandisers (All three verses, Broadway lyrics with Walter solo)
Diplomats (Both verses, London lyrics)
Arbiter (London lyrics)
Chess #1
Quartet
American & Florence / Nobody's Side
Terrace Duet / Who'd Ever Think It
One Night in Bangkok
Chess #2
Florence Quits / A Taste of Pity
Heaven Help My Heart
Reporters
Anthem
Act II
Hungarian Folk Song
Someone Else's Story (Svetlana, with Sydney Lyrics)
No Contest
Argument II (Concept Album)
You & I (Broadway, with Anatoly/Florence and Anatoly/Svetlana sections)
Freddie Goes Metal
Let's Work Together
I Know Him So Well
Attempted Reconciliation (from Sydney... "Silly boy, woman who..." etc)
Pity the Child
Endgame (A Sydney/Broadway hybrid using Rice's NY lyrics)
You & I Reprise (London version, with the introductory "This is an all too familiar scene..." verse, and wonderful choir part)
|
So there you have it. My personal flavor of Chess, basically a streamlined Nelson book with some Sydney thrown in the smooth out the rough parts in Act II. I'm pretty happy with it, this week. But, owing to my gender, you know that could change at any moment.
|
High-baritonne
|
I've also been checking out different ways of putting up chess, here are 2 of my "lists"
Stockholm based:
| Quote: |
01. Prologue
02. The Story of Chess
03. Where I Want to Be
04. Freddie's Entrance
05. Press Conference
06. Anatoly and Molokov
07. You Want to Lose Your Only Friend?
08. One Night in Bangkok
09. Arbiter
10. Quartet
11. Someone Else's Story
12. Embassy Lament
13. Terrace Duet
14. A Taste of Pity
15. Anthem
16. Entr'acte
17. Soviet Machine
18. Nobody's Side
19. Chess
20. I Know Him so Well
21. Pity the Child
22. Forget Me While You Can
23. Capablanca
24. Endgame
25. You and I
|
I know, it's to different from any version to be legalized, I just like the thought of this order, with of course some dialogue in between the songs.
And the concept approach with original song list plus something new and a new synopsis and a script.
| Quote: |
01. Overture
02. Merano
03. Anatoly and Molokov
04. Where I Want to Be
05. Opening Ceremony
06. Quartet
07. Freddie and Florence
08. Nobody's Side
09. Chess
10. Florence and Molokov
11. Mountain Duet
12. Florence Quits
13. Embassy Lament
14. Anthem
15. Bangkok
16. One Night in Bangkok
17. Someone Else's Story / Heaven Help My Heart (Can't decide on which to use)
18. Argument
19. I Know Him so Well
20. The Deal
21. Pity the Child
22. Endgame
23.You and I
24. The Story of Chess
25. You and I (reprise)
|
I really think the concept album with the inclusion of "Florence and Molokov" can work really well, instead of having a one year interval, I would do as in New York, just set the other half of the championship in Bangkok. Thus we lose Viigand, we don't need Walter, and the love triangle is free to unfold!
|
bugaboo_4
|
kaelidancer:
I absolutely love the way you used "Argument" to lead into "You and I." Brilliant. I like "Argument" but I've always felt that eliminating the first "You and I" means we don't get to see another tender moment between Florence and Anatoly after "Terrace Duet." This solves that problem perfectly.
Your revised song list for the Broadway script looks great, too. How are you introducing Svetlana at the top of the second act? Do you have a scene leading into "Someone Else's Story"? I'd love to see your complete script. It sounds like you've managed to actually make the Broadway version work which is a major feat. Congratulations!
|
Brother Marvin Hinten, S.
|
| bugaboo_4 wrote: | | It sounds like you've managed to actually make the Broadway version work which is a major feat. Congratulations! |
Cadriel's done it, too. Ask to look at his version some time.
|
kaelidancer
|
| bugaboo_4 wrote: | kaelidancer:
I absolutely love the way you used "Argument" to lead into "You and I." Brilliant. I like "Argument" but I've always felt that eliminating the first "You and I" means we don't get to see another tender moment between Florence and Anatoly after "Terrace Duet." This solves that problem perfectly.
Your revised song list for the Broadway script looks great, too. How are you introducing Svetlana at the top of the second act? Do you have a scene leading into "Someone Else's Story"? I'd love to see your complete script. It sounds like you've managed to actually make the Broadway version work which is a major feat. Congratulations! |
Oh, thanks!
As for my introduction of Svetlana, it's a little shoehorned, but it works. The scene preceding it originally led into "Heaven Help My Heart," thus:
| Quote: |
FLORENCE
This isn't my country. I'm a tourist. I have no memories of anything.
MOLOKOV
For that I am sorry.
It is a charming city. My own honeymoon was here.
FLORENCE
I couldn't even find Prodgsy Street where I was born. I thought maybe there'd be neighbors who remembered... what happened to my father.
MOLOKOV
Perhaps they changed the street names. I could ask. I speak some Hungarian.
FLORENCE
I wouldn't want you to go to any trouble -
MOLOKOV
It would be no trouble at all. I’m told that Anatoly seems very very happy. No doubt, because of you. Feel complimented by that. My wife would. To have that said about me. I have been a stupid husband, Florence. So much time away. She kept saying, if I loved her, I would give her every second. But, I was young.
(HEAVEN HELP MY HEART)
|
I cut Molokov's last line back a bit, and switched his "My wife would" to "HIS wife would." ... earlier in the scene he's been digging Florence about her affair ("I think I shall pray that my wife stays faithful to me..."), so this tones down the sincerity a bit, but provides a workable way to segue to Svetlana, checking into her hotel room. Here's my version of the transition:
| Quote: | FLORENCE
This isn't my country. I'm a tourist. I have no memories of anything.
MOLOKOV
For that I am sorry.
(She turns to him, surprised by the remark.)
It is a charming city. My own honeymoon was here.
(He starts to exit.)
I'm told Anatoly seems very happy. No doubt because of you. (Pausing) Feel complimented by that. His wife would.
(He exits.)
FLORENCE
His wife...
(The Hungarian Playoff transitions to...)
Scene two: Svetlana's Hotel Room
(Svetlana enters, accompanied by the Soviet Tactician. He deposits her luggage at her feet, presents her with her passport and an envelope, and exits.)
(SOMEONE ELSE'S STORY)
|
The tactician here is a greatly diminished version of the Broadway character Nikolai. In an earlier draft I was using some Sydney dialogue which references a Tactician, so I let that character take the few bits of Nikolai I was keeping. My current (and final, I think) revision has lost the dialogue that references him, but the character remains.
And yes, I'll have to equivocate Brother Marvin Hinten, S.'s endorsement of Cadriel. He's been very very helpful to me in this process, and I've used some of the same changes his script has.
His is more faithful to the Nelson book and song order, whereas mine is a little more bent in the direction of Sydney, but it is still a vast improvement on the standard script.
|
Jekkienumber24601
|
So what we did....
Act 2
Bangkok
Television Report
Scene with Anatoly and Florence from the broadway script leading into
You and I
Soviet Machine
Interview
Scene from new concert with Walter and Molokov leading into
The Argument
Scene with Svetlana and Anatoly from broadway script
Someone Else's Story (Svet with lyrics written for her character)
|
Jekkienumber24601
|
| kaelidancer wrote: | Well, after sleeping on it I've decided I like it. I tweaked the dialogue surrounding it a little, but otherwise I'm leaving it as above for the time being.
Here's the song order for my revision:
| Quote: |
Act I
Prologue/Story of Chess (Broadway version, sung by Arbiter & Assistants)
Freddie's Entrance (both verses)
Press Conference (Broadway version)
Where I Want to Be
Argument I (How Many Women)
Merchandisers (All three verses, Broadway lyrics with Walter solo)
Diplomats (Both verses, London lyrics)
Arbiter (London lyrics)
Chess #1
Quartet
American & Florence / Nobody's Side
Terrace Duet / Who'd Ever Think It
One Night in Bangkok
Chess #2
Florence Quits / A Taste of Pity
Heaven Help My Heart
Reporters
Anthem
Act II
Hungarian Folk Song
Someone Else's Story (Svetlana, with Sydney Lyrics)
No Contest
Argument II (Concept Album)
You & I (Broadway, with Anatoly/Florence and Anatoly/Svetlana sections)
Freddie Goes Metal
Let's Work Together
I Know Him So Well
Attempted Reconciliation (from Sydney... "Silly boy, woman who..." etc)
Pity the Child
Endgame (A Sydney/Broadway hybrid using Rice's NY lyrics)
You & I Reprise (London version, with the introductory "This is an all too familiar scene..." verse, and wonderful choir part)
|
So there you have it. My personal flavor of Chess, basically a streamlined Nelson book with some Sydney thrown in the smooth out the rough parts in Act II. I'm pretty happy with it, this week. But, owing to my gender, you know that could change at any moment. |
Sounds good too! I just hate "How many women" but other than that, that's gonna be a solid version.
|
